I do not share the view that the overnight news that the Prime Minister’s refusal to join in a new European Union treaty will somehow leave us isolated and sidelined in Europe.
The fact is that next week Germany will still want to sell us their cars and France sell us their wine. More importantly our European neighbours will still want to buy British goods and services.
I think the Prime Minister was absolutely right to defend British interests and I think the majority of British people will support his view. The claim that there this has suddenly created a two tier Europe ignores that fact that ever since the single European currency came into being there has been two groups of countries in the European union those inside the Eurozone and those outside the Eurozone. All that has happened is that this division has been highlighted and reinforced.
I have long believed that the single currency as it is presently constituted is doomed. This country greatly benefits from being outside the Eurozone. Nothing I have seen about what was agreed at this summit has led me to change my view about this.
David Nuttall 
Cameron was spot on but I wouldn’t have taken any French flak without mentioning agricultural policy.
What I can’t comprehend is that of all the great brains around, not one of them appears to be to forcefully promoting the process mapping of an exit route for a trouble Eurozone economy (eg Greece) back to it’s former national currency with an EU trading membership card tucked in their top pocket. Nothing from that summit could have given the market, any time soon, tangible comfort that the weak won’t bring down the stronger. With a formal exit route plotted there would at least be a proper pressure relief valve. Greece SHOULD be quickly demobbed/ eased out to demonstrate the pathway and that the Eurozone is a club with fiscal standards. Isolation and treatment is the is best remedy for disease – the doctors should be the IMF and World Bank who are the experts in basket case country debt situations and the cure to save the patient in this instance must be local de-valuation to begin a new relationship with connected economies. Then, countries with serious symptons can plan politically and economically for their own inevitable hospitalisation and treatment.
As for the UK, let’s see some serious manufacturing incentives (through tax, cash or whatever) targeted first at the North East ( so says a Radcliffe chap ). Even in tough times we can’t put off long term plans for re-balancing our economy towards making things to sell abroad because that is putting off our own return to better prospects.
Thanks David, now I know how it works I will look at the ‘small print’ at the next election rather than rely on what your party says it believes in and stands for. Because it is clear you are after something completely different. I realise that political parties can be a broad church but you are pretty near the edge !
And if I understand you correctly being an independent nation state us incompatible with EU membership. I would suggest your leaders recent action proves the opposite.
PS – do you support an independent Scotland, Wales, and Ireland – and the break up of the UK ?
Hi,
There are of course plenty of Labour MP’s who also belive this Country would be better off with either less EU or no EU.
I do support the United Kingdom.
David
David
Bold and courageous statesmanship from our esteemed Prime Minister. The whole of Europe will now have to struggle in isolation. I fear that this ‘Great Day’ may well turn out to be anything but when we look back in years to come. I see no benefit to anyone but Mr Cameron and a few of his well-off colleagues. I strongly suspect his rash decision comes more from a desire to appease a few outspoken Tory backbenchers and the interests of those few in the ‘City’ with future bonuses to safeguard than from an objective analysis of what is best for most of the population of this country.
We are now seing early vindication of Cameron’s stance with the Czechs and others cooling on the treaty. Nothing much could be hammered out there as reporting back to national governments is always required. I’d have pointed out a few EU failings (agriculture, corruption etc) but maybe just saying NO was politically more subtle.
Not a Hislop fan but his comment “hmm, we shouldn’t stand by and watch all those Eurozone economies collapse, let’s sign up so we can collapse with them” – pretty much reflects the outcome as it presently looks.
If you are keen for this kind of deal, I have a neighbour who is on the verge of bankruptcy and losing his home. If you would like to pool your personal resources with him I’m sure he would quickly accept?
But my neighbour two houses up from me is on fire and as its a terrace I’m in a whole heap of trouble if it takes hold. Should I do something or just sit and bitch about their bad wiring and lack of smoke alarms? And they keep parking outside my house! Should I ask them to stop doing that before I ring the fire brigade?
Oh and please answer the point about Cameron making positive contribution to preventing a catastrophic collapse.
David, delighted that you have done a political piece at last.
Of course, I acknowledge that you will get lots of nonsense like that posted by Ewan if you do, but that’s politics for you I am afraid.
On it’s own the Friday news is bad for Britain. We remain in the EU and will continue to suffer wherever majority voting applies. Indeed it is likely to get worse as the poorer countries fall further and further under the control of France and Germany.
It could be a good day. But only if this is a first step towards a much looser relationship with the EU ( I could have said, the “rest of the EU but decided against)
And there I was thinking I had been relatively coherant and compelling. Obviously I must be off my meds to think that preventing a massive depression in europe is more important than token gestures.
As with most tory commentators on the issue, David Nuttall did not respond to the specifics of my argument about what Cameron achieved by wielding the veto. The ‘Great Day’ he has spoken about seems in his mind akin to el-Alamein, the beginning of the end (I know Churchill said it was the end of the beginning), without responding to the charge that the war may leave both sides entirely wrecked, with no hope of a Marshall plan.
PS. I accept the slap on the wrist for the intemperate language towards those charming hard working people in the City of London who contribute so much to the country and the Conservative party.
Hi Ewan,
Thanks for all your comments. I see no benefit in this Country being told what to do by the other Countries of the EU There is no point in countries having vetos if they are not prepared to use them. It was perfectly right for the Prime Minister to make put forward what were actually very modest proposals and then, if they were not met, refuse to sign any new Treaty.
There is nothing to stop the Eurozone countries getting on and taking the necessary action to sort out the Eurozone crisis. The Countries in the Eurzone need to cut public spending and start living within their means. They do not need a Treaty to do that they just need some political will power! Of course, it is because they have not stuck to the original rules that were introduced when the Eurozone was established that they are in the economic mess they are now in.
David
Again David, you are resolutely failing to answer my substantive point. How can it be a ‘Great Day’ for britain when our prime minister accomplished nothing of substance, increased the risks of collapse in the eurozone and contributed nothing to the debate.
Hi Ewan,
Why do you think the actions of the Prime Minister increased the risk of collapse in the Eurozone. The United Kingdom is not part of the Eurozone, although of course we do buy lots of German cars and French, Spanish and Portuguese wine etc, etc. We will continue to be the second biggest contributor to the European Union.
Best wishes,
David
From above
“All he has achieved is to remove whatever fiscal arrangements the 17 (+) make from the european institutions with the ability to enforce them, thereby weakening the agreements and increasing the likelihood of catastrophic collapse.”
My understanding of the situation has changed a bit since writing that, it may not necessarily be the case, but the uncertainty in itself is a destabalising factor.
David,
I for one was ashamed of Cameron’s attitude at the conference. The purpose of the conference was to try and prevent a melt-down in the euro zone, something that should it occur will cost us 7-10% of GDP, and all he could say was I’m not going to play if I don’t get to protect the greedy scum bags that got us into this mess in the first place.
All he has achieved is to remove whatever fiscal arrangements the 17 (+) make from the european institutions with the ability to enforce them, thereby weakening the agreements and increasing the likelihood of catastrophic collapse.
I don’t know if its got lost in the hoo ha regarding our isolation, but did Cameron make 1 single positive contribution to the debate?
Hi Ewan,
Thanks for posting the Bury North Lib Dem view!
Personally, I think that most people will agree that the Prime Minister did exactly the right thing and not only that but an increasing number of people agree with my view that we would be better off if we were free from the bureaucratic European Union.
I am prepared to see my view tested in a referendum. Why, I wonder, are those who want to maintain the status quo not prepared to countenance asking the British people what they think. I notice all the recent polls still show 2 out of 3 people want to have a referendum on our membership of the European Union.
Best wishes,
David
PS For the avoidance of doubt I do not agree with your description of the financial services industry who hugely contribute to the wealth of our nation!
David,
It is clear you want UK to leave the EU.
Why then did you stand for election on a manifesto that said ‘ The Government believes that Britain should play a leading role in an enlarged European Union’ and ‘We will continue to be an active and activist participant in the European Union, with the goal of ensuring that Europe is equipped to face the challenges of the 21st century: global competitiveness, global warming and global poverty’ ?
It seems you asked people for yopur vote under false pretences.
Hi,
I recall one of my leaflets said something along the lines of the fact that I wanted to see a Europe of independent nation states. The Conservative Party just like the Labour Party has members with a wide range of views on Europe.
David
1) These are my views as an individual, not the views of my party.
2) Please explain how Cameron’s actions have made catastrophic collapse of the euro any less likely, rather than more likely as I suggested.
3) Please explain what was protected by wielding the veto. I quote from Will Hutton in the Observer today ” Much of British finance in whose name Cameron exercised his veto – routine banking, insurance and accounting – was wholly unaffected by any treaty change. The financial services industry in Britain constitutes 7.5% of GDP and employs a million people; the City represents perhaps a third of that and, in turn, that part threatened – if it was threatened at all – some fraction of that. This is a tiny economic interest. If the coalition is serious about rebalancing the British economy, it is preposterous to place a fragment of the City at the forefront of our national priorities.
Moreover, any tax, such as the financial transaction tax about which Cameron was so exercised (and which is, in any case, a good idea if done right as recommended by the IMF), has to be agreed by all. Which means that the threat was nil. Even regulatory proposals, although proceeding by qualified majority voting, have in financial services proceeded, in reality, by unanimity.”
It is about time the Government started standing up for Britain, instead of being everyone’s lapdog and taking the pain that everyone seems to give us. Until the Government wakes up and sees that it is only the British Workers, who actually were born in Britain and live here that need to be looked after first, we will continue on the downward spiral. We are only a small island and we cannot accomodate the world and his brother, without resources being built. We cannot keep bailing out everyone, we do need some resources for ourselves. Thats not being mean, just being realistic, lets face it, who helps us when we are struggling?